Interested People
Nona Farahnik
Devin McDougall?
Jessica Cohen
Christopher Crisman-Cox
Kalliope Kefallinos

Goal Suggestions
Devin - assembling signatures for a petition to withdraw from US New and World Report rankings
Jessica - possibly haggling about tuition; wants to see a line-item asset/liability sheet for the Law School
Chris - (1) lower tuition significantly if at all possible, (2) move to a pass/fail grading system, (3) provide honest information about career prospects

Strategy Planning Suggestions
. Clarify and find consensus on goals and strategies
. Obtain classwide support, as well as other years
. Discuss on the wiki
. Discuss with LCS classmates

You have my signature. The only problem as I see it is you offer no clear goal. In my estimation, whatever plan would have to get something like 2/3 1L class-wide participation (and preceding that, consensus).

Nona Farahnik

I think a feasible early goal could be assembling signatures for a petition requesting that CLS withdraw cooperation from the US News and World Report rankings. I have never personally met a defender of the validity of the US News and World Report rankings. This could get the ball rolling for a broader discussion about defining excellence in legal training.

-- DevinMcDougall - 10 Mar 2010

I'm in...but maybe we should talk about what we want? Maybe a bit of haggling about tuition is in order. I agree with Nona, but I also think that some sort of line-item asset/liability sheet for Columbia Law should be made public to us. I have similar feelings about tuition as I do about (not) bargaining with the clerk in Morton Williams - somehow the price has been rationally and fairly arrived at. I'd just like to see EXACTLY how.

Also - Devin, your idea about withdrawing from the rankings is interesting but I am very confident that the administration would oppose it. After all, it serves quite an Arnoldian power-enhancing purpose.

-- JessicaCohen - 10 March 2010

The main thing I would change is to switch from one end-of-term exam to a system with multiple assigns/ midterm/ final, whatever. I don't care if grades stay or change-- replacing letter grades with HP/P system is the same shit with a different name. I just want more feedback. I wouldn't prefer this, but I wouldn't mind if the intermediate feedback was by TAs, either. I also think asking for a tuition reduction is absurd.

-- KalliopeKefallinos - 10 March 2010

I think this is the one thing the entire grade can rally around. At least one midterm assignment (graded or not as the professor please) per class. The minimum that this requires is for a professor to post something on courseweb and to spend one lunchtime going over it. It would really just take a grade-wide mild insurgency before the next faculty meeting.

Nona

@Jessica: You say you are very confident that the administration would oppose withdrawing from the ranking. But isn't the point of something like this to force the administration to do things it would otherwise not want to do? I think you should say whether or not you personally think it is a good idea, and not focus on whether it is something the administration would naturally want to do.

@Kalliope: Why is asking for a tuition reduction absurd? Do you really think law school is worth $50,000 per year? I do not think so. Somehow, I feel we could learn the same amount for a fraction of the cost.

-- ChristopherCrismanCox - 10 Mar 2010

@Chris: you can learn the same amount for a fraction of the cost. What state are you from? I think law school is worth 50k per year because we are paying it, and however much we want to analyze the functioning of our market-based society, there is a market for law school. If you also factor in the sheer amount of stuff going on at the law school in addition to the actual earning value of our license, there is intellectual value out of the whole deal as well. Maybe you will feel better by comparing this cost to the $6k price tag to go to TED for a long weekend. I feel like we get TED every day. Just today, I unexpectedly attended a vigorous panel of 5 education experts on a subject I previously knew nothing about. Anyhow, I don't agree with Eben's blanket contentions about the value of our future licenses. We can make this experience and our future abilities worth more or less depending on our own level of engagement. Nona

I mean that it is absurd as a practical matter. I think we have to look at the psychology of the people we would be imploring and prioritize our goals based on how we think they would react. Asking for tuition would come off as immature dream-wishing, in turn destroying any credibility we might have. The admin can easily respond to a demand for lower tuition by explaining that it is "impossible" given the current surrounding economic reality. Financial aid and many other CU programs will have to be cut, they will say. You are only thinking short term, they will say. How will we pay the salary of Petal Modeste and others we just hired specifically to help you in this new "climate"? I could go on. I agree with you that we could learn the same if not more for a fraction of the cost, but that's not the point. I feel like I'm just applying what we've been learning thus far in class regarding prediction...

-- KalliopeKefallinos - 10 Mar 2010 Chris - You're right. I guess it wouldn't be the first thing I'd lobby for, though.

Kalliope - I meant forcing the administration to be held accountable for our tuition. The "haggling" would take the form of the asset/liability sheet - i.e. we're investors in our education, and have a right to know why the money is spent how it is.

All that said, I am also down for any positive change and agree with Moglen that the 3 bullet point strategy would be best.

-- JessicaCohen

@Christopher - Nona has stolen some of my thunder, but I agree with her comment and still think my comment will add something.

If you think law school isn't worth $50,000/year then boy do I have a solution for you! Drop out! Maybe you're on scholarship or get financial aid, in which case you probably shouldn't be complaining that law school costs $50,000, because it doesn't for you. Law schools have many pricing mechanisms that charge different students different prices. Most students here at Columbia have the option of paying anywhere from $0 - $50,000/year for law school depending on which school they choose to attend. Many students bargain with the schools and weigh offers based on how they value the education (or reputation or whatever they like about a school).

It’s hard for me to understand how someone who is here can say they don’t think it’s worth the money. If you really don’t think it’s worth the money then you would leave. My bet is that you could get a full-ride at a lower-tier law school starting tomorrow. I know there are many students who would be anxious to fill your spot because they believe a CLS education is worth a lot more than $50,000/year.

-JoshLerner