Law in Contemporary Society

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RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 6 - 28 Feb 2008 - Main.JosephMacias
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Discussion of Robinson's Metamorphosis


RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 5 - 28 Feb 2008 - Main.MichaelBerkovits
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Discussion of Robinson's Metamorphosis

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"The criminal law represents civilation's pathology"
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"The criminal law represents civilization's pathology"
 
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It seems that the piece is summarized in this line where Robinson is quoting some outside source. The phrase "Criminal law", not crime or law generallly, show the peculiar nature of criminal law in showing the disease of 'civilazation'. Although the phrase in isolation could mean the laws deemed crime are an effort to quarantine the diseases (psychological, emotional ets.) of society, within the framework of the piece, Robinson is suggesting that the way the criminal law works is a representation of the diseases. The very mechanism that we attempt to use to 'conceal' or 'deal' with our own pathology is where it is most apparent, not as a result of the people we deem criminals, but through those charged with adminstering it.
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It seems that the piece is summarized in this line where Robinson is quoting some outside source. The phrase "Criminal law", not crime or law generally, show the peculiar nature of criminal law in showing the disease of 'civilization'. Although the phrase in isolation could mean the laws deemed crime are an effort to quarantine the diseases (psychological, emotional ets.) of society, within the framework of the piece, Robinson is suggesting that the way the criminal law works is a representation of the diseases. The very mechanism that we attempt to use to 'conceal' or 'deal' with our own pathology is where it is most apparent, not as a result of the people we deem criminals, but through those charged with administering it.
 His disdain is for the lawyers and judges involved in the process including, it seems, for himself not those who are subject to it.
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Maybe the the best way to improve society is not through the 'deterrence', 'retribution', etc. that criminal law espouses but instead through a thorough analyis of the defiencies of the criminal system not in regards to how it treats criminals, but with an eye toward what that means about we treat citizens both inside and outside of it.
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Maybe the the best way to improve society is not through the 'deterrence', 'retribution', etc. that criminal law espouses but instead through a thorough analysis of the deficiencies of the criminal system not in regards to how it treats criminals, but with an eye toward what that means about we treat citizens both inside and outside of it.
 -- BetreGizaw - 28 Feb 2008
 
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RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 4 - 28 Feb 2008 - Main.JosephMacias
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Discussion of Robinson's Metamorphosis


RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 3 - 28 Feb 2008 - Main.BetreGizaw
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Discussion of Robinson's Metamorphosis

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 -- EbenMoglen - 27 Feb 2008
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"The criminal law represents civilation's pathology"

It seems that the piece is summarized in this line where Robinson is quoting some outside source. The phrase "Criminal law", not crime or law generallly, show the peculiar nature of criminal law in showing the disease of 'civilazation'. Although the phrase in isolation could mean the laws deemed crime are an effort to quarantine the diseases (psychological, emotional ets.) of society, within the framework of the piece, Robinson is suggesting that the way the criminal law works is a representation of the diseases. The very mechanism that we attempt to use to 'conceal' or 'deal' with our own pathology is where it is most apparent, not as a result of the people we deem criminals, but through those charged with adminstering it.

His disdain is for the lawyers and judges involved in the process including, it seems, for himself not those who are subject to it.

Maybe the the best way to improve society is not through the 'deterrence', 'retribution', etc. that criminal law espouses but instead through a thorough analyis of the defiencies of the criminal system not in regards to how it treats criminals, but with an eye toward what that means about we treat citizens both inside and outside of it.

-- BetreGizaw - 28 Feb 2008

 
 
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META TOPICMOVED by="EbenMoglen" date="1204168005" from="LawContempSoc.Lawyerland" to="LawContempSoc.RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk"

RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 2 - 28 Feb 2008 - Main.EbenMoglen
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Discussion of Robinson's Metamorphosis

 
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-- CarinaWallance - 27 Feb 2008 I though to post some thoughts on the parallels between the Lawyerland piece and the Metamorphosis that may help start a discussion. Clearly the theme of alienation is a central issue - expressed not only through the descriptions of the inside of the prisons but also the location on an island apart from the rest of the world. The insect's reclusion in his room - and perhaps even his diminishing size - I believe also play into the idea of relieving others from the burden and acknowledgment of his existence. The reference to a young public defender who hasn't yet learned to be patient evokes the eroding patience of the insect's caretaker - but I am not sure exactly what to do with that. Another issue that stuck out was the discussion of the identity of the 'criminals' - what is a murderer or a rapist like. As though part of the alienation process of incarceration, also involves the dehumanization of those it sends off.
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I thought to post some thoughts on the parallels between the Robinson's Metamorphosis piece and the Metamorphosis that may help start a discussion. Clearly the theme of alienation is a central issue - expressed not only through the descriptions of the inside of the prisons but also the location on an island apart from the rest of the world. The insect's reclusion in his room - and perhaps even his diminishing size - I believe also play into the idea of relieving others from the burden and acknowledgment of his existence. The reference to a young public defender who hasn't yet learned to be patient evokes the eroding patience of the insect's caretaker - but I am not sure exactly what to do with that. Another issue that stuck out was the discussion of the identity of the 'criminals' - what is a murderer or a rapist like. As though part of the alienation process of incarceration, also involves the dehumanization of those it sends off.
 So what of the lawyers then? I recall reading Metamorphosis in high school as part of our discussion of the alienating and dehumanizing effects industrialization had on the work force - are certain practices prone to such separation? Is that what happens if they sell their licenses? Can lawyers be detached from the justice system itself? From the realities of what the law is? Surely if lawyers changed into prisoners they would have a better idea of what the law is - would they then know it as Holmes' 'bad man'? (Please correct me if this is completely off and point the discussion in the right direction!)
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-- CarinaWallance - 27 Feb 2008

  • I fixed the wiki problems, provided header, and moved this topic to RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk. I hope people won't get carried away by worrying about Kafka too much. I don't think this has very much to do with him, except indirectly.
 
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-- EbenMoglen - 27 Feb 2008
 
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(sorry - i accidentally did something wrong creating this topic - I can't figure out how to delete the first version, if someone can please go ahead - I hope I didn't mess anything up)
 
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-- CarinaWallance - 27 Feb 2008
 
 
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META TOPICMOVED by="EbenMoglen" date="1204168005" from="LawContempSoc.Lawyerland" to="LawContempSoc.RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk"

RobinsonsMetamorphosisTalk 1 - 27 Feb 2008 - Main.CarinaWallance
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-- CarinaWallance - 27 Feb 2008 I though to post some thoughts on the parallels between the Lawyerland piece and the Metamorphosis that may help start a discussion. Clearly the theme of alienation is a central issue - expressed not only through the descriptions of the inside of the prisons but also the location on an island apart from the rest of the world. The insect's reclusion in his room - and perhaps even his diminishing size - I believe also play into the idea of relieving others from the burden and acknowledgment of his existence. The reference to a young public defender who hasn't yet learned to be patient evokes the eroding patience of the insect's caretaker - but I am not sure exactly what to do with that. Another issue that stuck out was the discussion of the identity of the 'criminals' - what is a murderer or a rapist like. As though part of the alienation process of incarceration, also involves the dehumanization of those it sends off.

So what of the lawyers then? I recall reading Metamorphosis in high school as part of our discussion of the alienating and dehumanizing effects industrialization had on the work force - are certain practices prone to such separation? Is that what happens if they sell their licenses? Can lawyers be detached from the justice system itself? From the realities of what the law is? Surely if lawyers changed into prisoners they would have a better idea of what the law is - would they then know it as Holmes' 'bad man'? (Please correct me if this is completely off and point the discussion in the right direction!)

(sorry - i accidentally did something wrong creating this topic - I can't figure out how to delete the first version, if someone can please go ahead - I hope I didn't mess anything up)

-- CarinaWallance - 27 Feb 2008

 
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Revision 6r6 - 28 Feb 2008 - 20:24:58 - JosephMacias
Revision 5r5 - 28 Feb 2008 - 20:24:53 - MichaelBerkovits
Revision 4r4 - 28 Feb 2008 - 18:41:34 - JosephMacias
Revision 3r3 - 28 Feb 2008 - 17:54:48 - BetreGizaw
Revision 2r2 - 28 Feb 2008 - 03:08:12 - EbenMoglen
Revision 1r1 - 27 Feb 2008 - 04:55:05 - CarinaWallance
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