DeathofGiantFirms 18 - 23 Jan 2008 - Main.ChristinaYoun
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The Death of the Giant Firm?
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-- BarbPitman - 23 Jan 2008 | |
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I definitely think flexibility is a key issue for us as we enter the legal work force and I think a number of big name law firms are realizing it too. A few of the partners I met with over break from two of these big firms specifically addressed the problem of over-specialization in most big firms. One partner told me about his friend who was a specialist in one particular statute pertaining to real estate in California and was out of a job because the Californian legislature basically decided to get rid of it. Both firms recently implemented new programs to train their incoming junior associates to have a broader range of expertise even if it’s within one practice area/group.
That said, I agree with Barb that the “brokering” task of lawyers is here for the long run. A lot of information is open to the public for its use, but people lack the resources (time, money in the form of lost wages, maybe education, etc.) or maybe the patience to sift through all the information and figure things out. They can probably get the answers eventually, but as Barb said, probably not in the fashion or capacity of that of a trained attorney.
Finally, regarding Justin’s statement that “pedigree won't matter as much as what you can do for your clients,” I agree that in the end, clients really care about results. In fact, it has been that way for a long time. One can just look to the partners of big firms. Most of the partners I met with actually went to lower ranked or local schools. The way you make partner, they say, is by building your own “book” of clients. That is, you have to be business-savvy and be able to carry your clients. Nonetheless, these partners seemed to want to hire people from top law schools instead of more people with their similar educational background. (Maybe because we’re easier to program into work-machines who won’t steal their clients?) Anyway, my point was that regardless of what causes their predilections and what not, as brand new attorneys just starting off, there will be a certain market of employers who will give us jobs. Even with the fall of big firms, I cannot imagine a completely unorganized mass of single attorney offices and I cannot imagine anyone setting up shop fresh out of law school. Where will all the partners with their preferences for ivy-educated lawyers go after the fall? They will probably set up some sorts of practice groups. Someone has got to hire/work for or with others even with the fall of big firms.
-- ChristinaYoun - 23 Jan 2008 | | |
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DeathofGiantFirms 17 - 23 Jan 2008 - Main.BarbPitman
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The Death of the Giant Firm?
| | Even still, flexibility will remain important. If we truly are able to shape peoples thoughts, reasoning, and actions using our words then there will always be market for those of us who can do it well.
-- AdamCarlis - 23 Jan 2008 | |
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Adam, I don't want to appear to be jumping on you again, but your analysis might change if you look at the legal practice options as being broader than the ability to predict what courts will do. Most attorneys never interact with courts or court personnel and are not involved in the litigation process from any angle. Law school curriculum is focused on building analytical skills in the first year by analyzing court cases and learning the federal court process, but most attorneys never professionally steps foot in a courtroom after being "sworn in" to practice law. Many attorneys instead "broker" information and predictions with regards to governmental agencies, other private entities, the legislature, the body politic, the election process (predicting/supporting election outcomes), other law firms, defined community and private interest groups, and the press. There's just way too much information out there that is best assessed first-hand from an experientially-intuitive process and that is coming from a number of disparate places for the average person (or some overseas lawyer) to attain both the "predictability quotient" and knowledge of the law necessary to confidently assess every area in which that would-be client may have a legal or quasi-legal interest. In other words, while the type and nature of lawyering needs may change (just look at IP), the need for on-site, informed lawyers will always exist in some capacity. Consequently, in my opinion, the legal/informational "brokerage" part of lawyering will always be viable in some form in the United States. Justin's point about being flexible hits on this.
-- BarbPitman - 23 Jan 2008 | |
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DeathofGiantFirms 16 - 23 Jan 2008 - Main.AdamCarlis
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META TOPICPARENT | name="ClassNotes16Jan08" |
The Death of the Giant Firm?
| | I respond to Christina by saying two things. First, I agree that there is a branding market out there, and that name of where you went to school can open doors for you, but I agree with Adam that this need not always be so. So the question then becomes, what else (besides go to a top school) can we do to to insulate ourselves in job stability and happiness? I think that Eben hit the nail on the head when he said that the key is to learn to be 'flexible' and to be able to do a variety of different things for different clients. There is a great saying that I think expresses this well: "the more you can do, the more you can do". If the 'death of firms' occurs, the pedigree won't matter as much as what you can do for your clients.
-- JustinColannino - 23 Jan 2008 | |
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I think that is pretty accurate, Justin. The only way, obviously, that is not so is if the "death of firms" actually means the death of lawyering in that individuals, armed with access to information, education, and some great computer software can do about as good as you or I when it comes to researching the law or constructing arguments. Then, instead of being the lawyers we will likely be reduced to nothing more than signatories for our client's briefs. While I don't see that happening any time soon, who can predict?
Even still, flexibility will remain important. If we truly are able to shape peoples thoughts, reasoning, and actions using our words then there will always be market for those of us who can do it well.
-- AdamCarlis - 23 Jan 2008 | | |
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DeathofGiantFirms 15 - 23 Jan 2008 - Main.JustinColannino
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The Death of the Giant Firm?
| | The only possible flaw in that analysis is if the same factor that destroys big firms does so by democratizing information to such an extent that developing the ability to predict what courts will do becomes attainable to the average person. Then, you wouldn't need a lawyer at all (it would be like if we developed a kangaroo-style pouch, causing the market for bags to plummet).
-- AdamCarlis - 23 Jan 2008 | |
> > | I respond to Christina by saying two things. First, I agree that there is a branding market out there, and that name of where you went to school can open doors for you, but I agree with Adam that this need not always be so. So the question then becomes, what else (besides go to a top school) can we do to to insulate ourselves in job stability and happiness? I think that Eben hit the nail on the head when he said that the key is to learn to be 'flexible' and to be able to do a variety of different things for different clients. There is a great saying that I think expresses this well: "the more you can do, the more you can do". If the 'death of firms' occurs, the pedigree won't matter as much as what you can do for your clients.
-- JustinColannino - 23 Jan 2008 | |
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DeathofGiantFirms 14 - 23 Jan 2008 - Main.AdamCarlis
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META TOPICPARENT | name="ClassNotes16Jan08" |
The Death of the Giant Firm?
| | No matter what happens to big firms in general, it seems that there will be a market for lawyers trained a ivy and other top tiered schools. For some reason or another, society seems to place value in the so-called "pedigree" or status of a person, object, etc. Just looking at the "luxury goods" markets, why is there a market for Luis Vuitton and Chloe handbags when one can get the same bag with the same quality for about $1000 less? Why is there a market for BMW and Mercedes-Benz when one can purchase a Honda or Toyota for half the price of the former? I am not saying that everyone or even many people will opt for the more expensive option, but I do think that there will be a substantial amount of demand, at least enough demand to allow for the perpetuation of the current system in place. I think there is something to be said about the value society places on the name attached to certain institutions and the price it is willing to pay for them. Even with all the increased competition from lawyers of other countries, I feel that there will still be a market for lawyers "top tier schools."
-- ChristinaYoun - 22 Jan 2008 | |
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The only possible flaw in that analysis is if the same factor that destroys big firms does so by democratizing information to such an extent that developing the ability to predict what courts will do becomes attainable to the average person. Then, you wouldn't need a lawyer at all (it would be like if we developed a kangaroo-style pouch, causing the market for bags to plummet).
-- AdamCarlis - 23 Jan 2008 | | |
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